From medieval mysticism to the music that made her, Susanne Sundfør reflects on the songs that have carried her through life, as told to Alan Pedder.
You don’t have to ask a seer to know how much darkness hope can withstand; our daily doomscrolls are evidence enough.
But if you did – consult a mystic, that is – you might find yourself going down a rabbit hole of radical, spiritual love. At least that’s what happened, in a nutshell, to Norwegian artist Susanne Sundfør, and it all started with a book. Specifically, the bestseller Femina by British art historian Janina Ramirez, published in 2022.
Drawn in by the cover image, which replicated Hildegard von Bingen’s egg-shaped vision of the universe, painted roughly 900 years ago, Sundfør says she was immediately inspired. “It ticked all the boxes of what I find interesting,” she recalls, describing how Ramirez tells the stories of medieval women lost from or written out of the cultural canon, all but forgotten. “And that’s where I came across Julian of Norwich.”
Widely credited with being the earliest known woman author to write a surviving book in the English language, Julian of Norwich was a 14th century religious recluse who, at the age of 30, received a series of visions – the “revelations of divine love” from which Sundfør’s new album takes its name – after seven days of anguish and pain. What she saw, and spent the rest of her life trying to understand, was an all-encompassing concept of love, big enough to fit the whole world in all its brokenness.
For Sundfør, now felt like the right time for her personally to release something that carried a different message from her earlier work; something different from the dystopian unease of 2010’s The Brothel and 2012’s The Silicone Veil, the destructive / thwarted / tortured emotions of 2015’s Ten Love Songs, and the themes of political upheaval and environmental devastation that shaped so much of 2017’s Music for People in Trouble.
Of course, that’s not to say her albums before now have not had their glimmers of hope – songs like “Mantra” and “Reincarnation” from Music for People in Trouble were already using spirituality as a gateway to hope, while 2023’s blómi found her centring nurture and collective love – but here on Revelations, hope is the whole point. “Having gone through some darker moments, I did experience hope in the end,” she says. “So I feel like I owe some reassurance to the world, but it’s also just where I’m at in life.”
Having dedicated her life to art since the age of six or seven (“It has been my religion”), Sundfør has always followed her gut rather than any outside notions of trend, but Revelations, even by her own standards, is a musical portrait that few, if any, could have predicted.
Written and recorded with British pianist and organ player Kit Downes, who comes from a background in classical and jazz, the album emerged from an experimental live presentation of Sundfør’s catalogue using only church organ and voice. Their first shows together in Norway coincided with the time of her discovering Julian of Norwich, and the two strands felt instantly connected. “It turned out that Kit grew up only a few blocks from her church,” she explains. “So it felt like life was telling me that I was going in the right direction.”
Still, the making of Revelations didn’t come without its own trials. After giving birth to her second child in March 2025, Sundfør spent some time in hospital due to nursing complications, “which of course put a lot of strain on the whole project.” Ultimately, it was Downes who ended up writing up “more than half of the record,” and the album is naturally credited to them both. “I’m really glad it happened that way in the end because I think his writing is exquisite,” she says. “I feel like it worked out exactly how it was supposed to.”
It certainly makes sense that an album so grounded in faith should emerge from a more intuitive process, and not without its own tests of endurance. Julian’s book – a Victorian translation of which can be read on the Internet Archive – is not exactly a holiday read with its dense passages of religious fervour, but there is something to the language that Sundfør has extracted that does, over some listens, begin to help make sense of the world.
But what are the songs that have done that for Sundfør herself over the years? Which songs have been or remain some sort of compass in her life and in her work? BEST FIT invited her to talk us through them.
“They Don’t Know” by Tracey Ullman
BEST FIT: First we’ve got this 1983 cover of “They Don’t Know” by Tracey Ullman, which is so different from your other choices. What made you fall in love with this song?
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: My dad used to make all these mixtapes for whenever we would travel to our summer cabin as a family. It was about a two-hour drive and we would always listen to music. I remember he played John Lennon a lot, and a lot of The Beatles in general. He also played this song a lot, but I don’t even remember why.
It is a really great song though. The writing is brilliant, and Tracey has a great voice. I just fell in love with the whole thing. It’s one of my earliest memories of experiencing music in a really intense way.
For me, the song has always been the most important part. It doesn’t matter what genre, if there’s a good melody I’m intrigued, and maybe this song is where that started.
It's fascinating that this song was more successful in Norway than anywhere else in the world. It spent nine weeks at #1.
Really? Wow. I didn’t know that. How interesting. Maybe she’d come over here to play or something.
Have you heard the original version by British singer Kirsty MacColl?
I didn't even know there was another version! I’ll have to check it out.
Yeah, it’s a few years earlier, from 1979, but the funny thing is that she’s also on the Tracey Ullman version, singing backup.
Oh, how tragic! Having to sing backup on a cover of your own song.
She wasn't offended. I read she looked at it as “a bit of reflected glory.” With Tracey Ullman being more famous as an actor and comedian than as a pop singer, I wondered if it generally interests you when people from another artistic discipline cross over into the music world?
I haven’t really ever thought about it, to be honest. I guess what often happens is that people in general, and me included, can get a bit weird about things like that. But I think it’s important to be open-minded and pay more attention to the art than to the artist.
"Lascia ch’io pianga" by George Frideric Handel
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: I was always so interested in music growing up. My first instrument was violin but I gave it up at quite a young age. I started playing piano when I was nine, and at 12, I started to take singing lessons.
I think music was a way for me to express emotions that I couldn’t really articulate with words, and that’s often how I still feel now. But when I started singing I was really nervous to perform.
We have this thing in Norway called krafttak schooling, which is basically state-financed teaching for art or music. Anyone can attend and learn whatever instrument they want to, as long as there’s a teacher for it. But part of that system is that there’s a public performance every six months for parents and friends.
The first time I sang at one of those, I forgot all the lyrics. Nobody had ever told me what to do when something like that happens, so I just stood there and it was really, really terrifying.
But for some reason I decided that I’d do it again, and I chose the song “Lascia ch’io pianga”, which is why it’s on this list. It’s mostly famous these days from the film Farinelli [a Golden Globe winner from 1994], but I know it from the Handel opera Rinaldo.
Anyway, I didn’t forget the lyrics the second time, but I did notice a woman in the front row who looked like she was asleep. So I started to think, okay, maybe this singing thing is not for me if this is what happens. Maybe this is not what I’m supposed to do in life.
But a few days later I found a card in the mailbox that was from that sleeping lady, who turned out to be a neighbour and a ceramic artist. In it, she explained that she’d had to close her eyes because she was so moved by the music, and she was so encouraging.
I think of that quite often, because she really didn’t have to do that. It was such a kind act. I really felt seen and appreciated, and it was a really important moment. Maybe even the most important moment for me as an artist.
BEST FIT: How much classical singing did you do beyond that?
I kept taking singing lessons at the same place until I was 16, then I went to a music high school and continued my lessons there for another two years. Then I put the classical world aside and started to write my own music and sing in a more contemporary way.
There are some puritans who say that you have to choose between classical and contemporary, that you can’t do both because if you’re going to sing classically you really have to practice and develop the richness of your timbre, but I don’t know if that’s true.
You've written quite a lot of music that sits between those two worlds. Do you feel like even if you're not practicing classical singing, it still has a big influence on your songwriting?
Oh yeah, for sure. I really like coloratura in arias and those kinds of ornamentation, and I think I’ve used that a lot in my own music.
Having played the violin and the piano, I feel like I’ve been exposed to pretty much the whole history of classical music. Basically the whole of my childhood was informed by not just the songs but the harmonics and melodies of classical music, but I did listen to a lot of pop music too.
"Wasted" by Radka Toneff
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: I was introduced to Radka Toneff’s music by a friend. I remember it was a really weird summer that year. I was 16 and working a summer job at a local bookstore, but I was stuck in the basement and barely saw any sunshine.
The friend I was working with put on the Radka Toneff album Fairytales, and it was kind of a rough time for me. In the end my mum had to tell me to stop listening to the album because it was affecting me so dramatically. Radka had recorded it right before she died, in 1982, and she has so much presence in the album, as a singer, that I don’t think I’ve heard in any other recording.
Nothing compares to it. I want to say it’s brilliant but that doesn’t cover it. It’s just such a true, true performance. It feels like there’s nothing between her and us as listeners, like she’s completely transparent and raw, almost like she was already transitioning into death.
Discovering that album was one of the most profound musical experiences of my youth, and I‘d say that she’s my biggest inspiration. And I’m not alone in my admiration. I think Radka must be the main inspiration for most jazz singing teachers in Norway, or at least that’s the impression I get from hearing a lot of singers who have certain traits that remind me of her.
I don’t think she’s all that well known outside of Norway though, which doesn’t make sense to me. I mean, these things often don’t. Some people go on to have big careers and their music is shit, and other people are amazing and almost no one listens to them. I’ve never understood that.
BEST FIT: Going back to what you were saying about the album feeling like there’s no barriers at all between the listener and the singer. Is that something that you were consciously trying to emulate when you were first starting out?
Yeah, but probably not consciously until later on. I’ve become more conscious of it over time, especially when playing live.
In the early days I sometimes used to take it personally if I didn’t feel like I could connect with an audience, like if they were being rowdy or not paying attention. But as I got more experienced I realised, of course, that it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with me. So I developed this strategy where, when something like that happens I sort of exclude myself from anything but the music.
I find that, maybe ironically, it can often lead to the best performances for me personally, because I can zone out of everything but myself and the musicians and can be more present and transparent as a singer.
But, yeah, Radka Toneff is always there in the background, like an icon of something to strive towards as an artist.
What is it in particular about “Wasted” that you love?
I mean, I love the whole album, but I chose “Wasted” because I think it’s the only song on Fairytales that she had a hand in writing. It’s just really great songwriting, great lyrics. I like when it goes into a minor key and then goes back again.
The whole composition is very elegant. She’s just playing around and I love that.
"Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig’s Tune)" by Joni Mitchell
BEST FIT: This one’s a favourite of mine too. Of all of Joni’s songs, what is it about “Judgement of the Moon and Stars” that has stuck with you in life?
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: I had to include a Joni Mitchell song somewhere because she’s one of my biggest influences as a songwriter. Maybe as a singer too, but definitely as a songwriter and as a radical, in terms of how she’s viewed herself as an artist and what she has prioritised. She just did whatever she wanted and that speaks to me, but mostly it’s the songwriting that I’ve been inspired by.
I pretty much listened only to Joni throughout high school; it was her and Jeff Buckley, who’s also been a very big presence in my life. I also listened to Carole King, Elton John, Carly Simon, and other singers and songwriters from the ’60s and ‘70s, but Joni was the one who stood above everybody else.
For the Roses is her best-written album, in my opinion. Her later albums, maybe because I don’t come from a jazz background, don’t hit me as much as her earlier work, and For the Roses, for me, is peak Joni. The poetry is so profound, so beautiful. It’s the perfect combination of wisdom and beauty.
From the imagery and the playfulness of the songs, you really get the sense that she’d immersed herself in nature. I think she wrote most of the album in isolation, in a cabin with no electricity. She went full hermit on this one and out came all this beauty, and “Judgement of the Moon and Stars” is the best song on the album.
Isn’t it about Beethoven? Am I right about that?
It’s about Vincent van Gogh, but she does mention Beethoven in the lyrics, as an example of another artist who was kind of misunderstood in their own lifetime. Vincent van Gogh comes up a few times in her work. She’s even dressed as him in the painting on the cover of Turbulent Indigo.
That makes sense. I guess you can see from her paintings as well that van Gogh is an inspiration.
"How to Disappear Completely" by Radiohead
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: Years ago, I was dating someone who was a big Radiohead fan and very critical about me listening only to old music. He said that I should get into Radiohead, so I thought okay, fine, I’ll give contemporary music a try, and I really fell in love with their whole catalogue.
Kid A is my favourite Radiohead album, it’s just fantastic. Listening to that album and to that kind of music was what made me start to transition from producing more folky, acoustic songs to going electronic. So, yeah, I had a short, intense love affair with Radiohead. I don’t really listen much to them these days, but I was a huge fan.
We went to see them play in Paris, actually, when I was 22, which I think was for the In Rainbows tour. What’s funny is that they had Bat for Lashes opening for them, and that was really interesting for me to see because I’d almost had a contract with Parlophone but they signed her instead.
It was between her and me, or at least that’s what I was told. I don’t remember exactly how they explained it at the time, but basically she was better. I think she was more developed as an artist and had this whole conceptual thing going on, so it was interesting to see her perform and know that history between us that she probably doesn’t even know.
I chose “How to Disappear Completely” because I really love the sound of the ondes Martenot, the old French electronic instrument that Jonny Greenwood uses on this song. I remember Radiohead did a live performance where they used several of these instruments.
It’s a really cool sound, really beautiful. I love that there’s a disconnection, harmonically, when the guitar comes in. It’s like, what’s going on now? What’s happening? There are all these lush and kind of sorrowful but also eerie string sounds. It’s so well made, such a great production.
BEST FIT: I’d forgotten until researching for this chat that the “I’m not here, this isn’t happening” line comes from something that Michael Stipe of REM gave to Thom Yorke.
Yeah, I’ve heard it was because he was struggling so much to deal with the OK Computer fame, so Michael Stipe was basically teaching him how to dissociate.
I don’t know that therapists would recommend that these days, but it seems like it worked for him. Maybe that’s the only reasonable thing to do in that kind of environment. It must have been so intense for them all, and especially for Thom as a front figure.
"I Hear a Rhapsody" by Bill Evans & Jim Hall
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: I discovered Bill Evans and Jim Hall's Undercurrent album during what was really the hardest time of my life.
I was struggling with anxiety and a deep depression, really hanging on the edge, and I bought it based on the cover because it spoke to how I was feeling.
The image is of a woman who’s completely underwater apart from her face, which you can’t see, and I thought it was so beautiful.
The music isn’t depressing. It’s quite light in a way. Listening to it felt almost like an oasis in all the darkness I was feeling. I would put on this record and it helped me to get through.
It was this album, and one of the albums on ECM Records by Stephan Micus. I played him a lot during that time too.
BEST FIT: It feels like a lot of people who love Bill Evans really love him, like it becomes an obsession almost.
Yeah. I never got there, but I do have several of his albums. He’s a great piano player.
I don’t think he’s influenced me all that much musically. It’s more the vibe and his presence in the music, for me. And because his music was there with me, keeping me company through a really rough time, when I listen to Undercurrent now it’s almost like it keeps on healing that part of my life.
It’s so fascinating to me that art can do that, that it can take you back and maybe help you handle the traumatic times better.
"Archangel" by Burial
BEST FIT: Now for something from a very different musical world. What is it about Burial that you find interesting as an artist?
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: His technical abilities and his production skills are just insane. I know there was a lot of curiosity around his identity, and I don’t know if they ever figured out who he was, but none of that was so important to me. I just thought he was a genius.
I was very inspired by his dark electronic soundscapes when I was making The Silicone Veil, and partially Ten Love Songs too. I don’t know if there’s anything specific I can say about him, other than he was a big influence on me and that I was just really, really impressed by this record, Untrue. The whole album. All the songs are brilliant so it was hard to pick just one.
I feel like the album needs to be heard in its whole context. You can’t really extract from it.
"4 Broken Hearts" by Norah Jones
BEST FIT: Here’s a bit of a deep cut from Norah Jones and her fifth album Little Broken Hearts. What’s the story with this one?
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: First of all, I love Norah Jones. She had her big breakthrough with Come Away With Me, and the album after that was also great, but I think that her best work is Little Broken Hearts, and especially this song. I think it’s the best one on the album.
I love the production. Norah always has great vocals and seems to be able to pick the very best musicians in the world for every album, and it’s just such a pleasure to listen to her.
Whenever I listen to Little Broken Hearts I’m taken right back to touring, when I was in my late twenties and going through heartbreak, and how this album was just the perfect soundtrack for that time. Not only did it inspire me musically, but also on a personal level, so it means a lot.
I guess you probably know that Norah has a great podcast where she invites other musicians to come and sing with her. Do you want to make a pitch right here, right now?
I didn't know that! And no, no. I wouldn’t even know what to say. She’s been such a big inspiration for me, and I don’t generally like to meet my inspirations. I wouldn’t be able to handle it!
"Say It (Over and Over Again)" by John Coltrane Quartet
SUSANNE SUNDFØR: This song was my first introduction to John Coltrane, through my husband André; he’s a saxophone player and he’s just crazy about Coltrane.
It’s a funny story, because Norway is quite homogenous, especially when it comes to pop culture, and people of the same age generally have all the same childhood references. He’s only one year older than me, and even though he grew up on the other side of the country, we watched the same TV shows, we listened to the same music.
But then at some point, after the age of 15, he doesn’t have any pop culture knowledge because that’s when he started to listen to Coltrane, and he went all in on that. Coltrane is his biggest inspiration, so when we started dating he introduced me to his music, and of course I loved it.
I don’t know if it’s just that I’ve gotten older or because I work so closely with music, but I have some kind of music fatigue. It’s become a lot harder for me to have the kind of profound musical experiences that I did in my youth, and I guess that’s quite normal.
I don’t really explore music as much as I used to, but André does. He has a huge vinyl collection, and he’s introduced me to so much interesting stuff. He really likes Brazilian music, whether it’s jazz or pop. But I picked Coltrane specifically because he means so much to André, and so he means a lot to me.
He’s been an inspiration musically too, through his use of quinto circular harmonics that I sort of did a version of on the title track of my last album blómi. I feel like maybe Coltrane is an inspiration for Kit too, since he’s a jazz musician.
I feel like if you are a jazz musician you can’t really escape Coltrane. He’s so hugely influential. Then again, Kit is a piano player, so it’s a completely different world.
BEST FIT: How did André react when you discovered that you also loved Coltrane? Was it different from how your ex reacted when you found out you liked Radiohead?
[laughs] I mean, André definitely likes Coltrane more than I do. It’s beautiful, of course, but I love it most because he loves it and it’s something that we share.
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