Ahead of the release of his 16th album Apple Cores, the experimental jazz artist talks Camryn Teder through the songs that have shaped him.
What musicians believe about life inevitably seeps into their sound. In turn, one of the most valuable gifts music offers us is perspective.
Take the work of iconic trumpeter Don Cherry. Instrumental music speaks just like words, relaying stories through sound waves that soak into our subconscious and enshroud us in feeling. One thing Cherry’s discography reveals is his perspective on curiosity, where he constantly collaborated with new voices in jazz and challenged the boundaries of the genre. As he famously said about life, “When people believe in boundaries, they become part of them.”
While Cherry passed on in 1995, New York-based tenor saxophonist James Brandon Lewis is something of a contemporary counterpart. The legendary saxophonist Sonny Rollins himself Lewis, “When I listen to you, I listen to Buddha, I listen to Confucius… I listen to the deeper meaning of life.”
You can hear Lewis’s similarities to Cherry in the cadence of his speech. Take what he says in our conversation, “The sound coming out of the saxophone is imbued with meaning. It’s the same as using words. Whether you're writing a poem or an essay, a meaning is assigned. Musicians give meaning to music, especially instrumental music where there are no words. You're relying on the sound to evoke the imagination and build sentiment in the listener. That's what I try to do in all of my work.”
One of the biggest voices in experimental jazz, Lewis came onto the scene in 2010 with the release of his debut album Moments. While he had previously been reluctant to expose his art to the world, the experience of losing his aunt made him look harder at the brevity of existence. He began to chase the energy of life and started to share his music in the process. Now he’s on the release of his 16th studio album inspired by someone he admires: jazz icon Don Cherry.
Created with longtime bandmates Chad Taylor and Josh Werner, Apple Cores takes on avant-garde hip-hop rhythms, nostalgic funk, and a bebop sound, but it all comes back to its foundation of jazz. Entirely improvised in just two sessions, the album's name is taken from a column written by poet and jazz theorist Amiri Baraka.
Lewis discovered Baraka during his time at Howard University and says he’s been “in constant dialogue” with the poet’s work throughout his career. His books were required reading for a jazz history class, and in 2013 Lewis opened for one of Baraka’s poetry readings at St. Mark's Church. The experience solidified his fascination with the poet.
So, as Lewis was discussing the course of his next album with his band, they spoke about Baraka’s book Blues People and how it could tie in. “This book primarily focused on the avant-garde. I don't necessarily identify myself as avant-garde of free jazz, I like to blur the line, but the book was influential. Amiri discusses the avant-garde in a very beautiful and respectful way, and of course, he covers Don Cherry,” Lewis says. Each song title on the album is a cryptic homage to the trumpeter.
Even though it’s entirely improvised, Apple Cores feels intentionally made thanks to the trio’s shared history. “Over time you end up building a vocabulary with each other musically. It's the same as when you first meet a stranger. There are ceilings of what could be a budding friendship, and then over time, you have this dialogue. Working in a band is the same way,” Lewis explains. “When it came time to record this album, we ended up talking about life and what's influenced us musically, and it came out in the playing…You're hearing that conversation in real-time.”
Even with all the trio’s years of training, improv is never straightforward, and that feeling of being “thrown into the fire” never dies. While it sounds intimidating, it's this particular energy that Lewis loves.
“If you listen to a Mos Def or Talib Quali freestyle, that's off the cuff. They're being thrown into the fire to see if they can withstand the heat. I actually relish that,” Lewis reflects. If anything does go wrong, Lewis always has a fail-safe. “What do you do when the GPS fails? You go back to using your intuition and allow that to guide you.”
Along with intuition and influence, Lewis’s music is informed by a vast well of sources that imbues his music with meaning. His fascination with other art forms, for example, also has a lasting effect on his sound.
“One of my favorite quotes by Leonard Bernstein is “the best way to know a thing is in the context of another thing,” which is a beautiful way of describing metaphor. I feel like when I'm studying other mediums, whether it's poetry or visual art, I try to find a through line in all of it. Seeing how it all relates, as one as opposed to being separate, has really helped me to not just think about music for music's sake, but more as having the same value as giving meaning.”
While Lewis’s work has been met with a slew of accolades, he remains humble, and above all, inquisitive. “I feel like the greatest strength you have as an artist is to remain curious, and the greatest contributor to your demise is complacency. I don't want to end up like that. If somebody would ask me, ‘Well, what do you fear?’ I fear being complacent,” he tells me.
Music has helped Lewis avoid that fate from the time he first picked up an instrument to now. In talking through his Nine Songs selections, his admiration for these projects and what they’ve given him is clear. They’ve encouraged him to remain curious about the world, but, most importantly of all, they’ve helped him enjoy the ride.
“Above all, I definitely would like the listener to allow themselves to just be washed in music. Allow it to live on its own.”
“Left Alone” by Archie Shepp & Abdullah Ibrahim
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: This song has been with me for at least ten years. It’s sheer emotion. It’s raw storytelling. It actually sounds like two people talking.
On top of that, prior to me hearing this, I had never heard Archie Shepp, who is a tenor player, on alto. I love the sheer, raw emotion of it. There's a lot of blues essence and sentiment in what he's playing. There's a cry to the saxophone, a reflectiveness in the piano playing.
It's just a really great piece of music. I don’t have any technical thoughts on it, other than it hit me like a ton of bricks when I first listened to it. When I'm wanting to know what music really is about, and the power of evoking emotion, I listen to this piece. We can get caught up in the objectivity of things, especially in music, or with any medium.
This is, for sure, a healthy balance between objectivity and subjectivity. It's the perfect fit for anybody wanting to know what music can be, in my opinion.
“When I Look In Your Eyes” by Ahmad Jamal
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: At this point in my life, I can go for several months without listening to a saxophone. Not because I dislike it, but because I need a fresh experience. Tranquility, which is where this song comes from, is one of my favorite Ahmad Jamal records. It's just grooving.
I'm from Buffalo. We love groove. I haven't lived in Buffalo since I was 19, but this tune in particular reminds me of where I'm from because it's grooving so heavy. It’s a vibe. I probably heard this on one of my binges of let-me-listen-to-everything-Ahmad-Jamal-has-ever-done.
It's one of those songs that I play to get motivated when I'm starting to think about my goals, my dreams, my aspirations. It’s like I'm ready for the fight of life. As soon as I get up, I'll play that song and its game time.
BEST FIT: I love that. I feel like everyone has their own little pump-up anthem that’s personal to them.
Exactly. That's my anthem right there.
“Thieves in Night” by Mos Def & Talib Kweli
BEST FIT: This sort of underground hip-hop sound is something that comes through in your music a lot, especially with some of the “Apple Core” tracks on your new album.
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: Exactly.
What draws you to that sound and this song in particular?
I’m 41. Chad and Josh are in their fifties. They love golden-era hip-hop, but I wanted to showcase what I was listening to in the 2000s. I graduated in 2001, and this was in my ears as an 18-year-old. I love Talib Kweli and, obviously, Mos Def, who now goes by Yasiin Bey.
But this track in particular is very informative, and I like that brand of hip-hop. It’s not the stereotypical sounds that we hear today.
Not to be one of those old guys or whatever, but I feel like music should be saying something. Music is saying something, it's just the level of positivity and reflection of culture that I'm concerned with. What is the music saying culturally? Anyway, I love this group and I love this sound. It takes me back to the 2000s.
“Corn Meal Dance” by William Parker
BEST FIT: I think this song has such beautiful imagery in it. What sort of emotions and feelings come to mind as you listen to it?
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: Number one, I picked this song because it's one of my favorite William Parker songs. I've worked with William - Mr. Parker - since 2011.
I look at him as a mentor, a friend, an elder in the scene. Elder as in he's played with Don Cherry. He's played with Cecil Taylor. He's played with the practitioners of this music, and he himself is a practitioner. He's 70-some years old. I admire him. He wrote the lyrics to this tune. “The mountains are dancing.” It's a great visual in those lyrics and I love that melody.
There are these narratives out there that music on the fringes or, avant-garde jazz or free jazz, whatever you want to call it, lacks melodic sensibilities. That is inaccurate. This melody here is so playful. There’s such a clear melodic development. It's really beautiful, very call and response. Every phrase connects to every phrase.
It also reminds me of William and how beautiful of a person he is. What he says he is on the bandstand is who he is off the bandstand, which is full of life and spirituality.
“Lonely Woman” by Ornette Coleman
BEST FIT: One of your new songs “Five Spots to Caravan” is inspired by Ornette Coleman. Why did this song in particular speak to you? What do you love about Ornette Coleman?
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: Once again, the people around me have played with Ornette and with Don Cherry, so I'm always in this kind of conversation. When I think about this track, there's a part in it where somebody yells out, “WOO!” I always used to rewind it to that part when I was listening to the CD, just to hear that energy.
Don Cherry and Ornette, they've influenced so much of my thinking about the possibilities. I think of them as somebody like a Jackson Pollock. What Jackson Pollock did for visual art, William Parker, Don Cherry, Ornette Coleman, and Charlie Haden did for jazz. They freed it from the easel. The canvas is now free. That's what Ornette and Don Cherry have done. Form still exists, colour still exists, but it's not contained within just the canvas and only on an easel.
I'm not a regretful person, because I understand my place in time. I didn't get to meet Ornette, but I'm thankful to have played with a lot of different people who've played with Ornette. I could have picked so many other tracks by him, but that's one of the pieces that I always just come back to, to hear the excitement. It's a specific kind of energy that they're playing with.
I love that description. For those who don't know, what were some of Coleman's contributions to the jazz scene that freed jazz from the canvas, so to speak?
If chords are the canvas, then he freed us from that. Now we can paint wherever. We can stay or depart or reinvent the whole thing completely. This is what he's done for music. Also, bringing back the almost talking inflections of the blues. You listen to him, and he sounds like he's talking through his instrument.
If you think about some of the old Middle Ages music that didn't even have a staff, such as Gregorian chants, some of the nomenclature for that was what they call neumes. They’re little dots where they're showing you the contour of the vocalist, but there wasn't pitch accuracy at all. That was before the invention of the staff. So they’re suggesting the pitch, but it’s not there.
And that gives freedom to the individual?
Exactly. I don't normally subscribe to the idea that there's nothing new under the sun, but this is what Ornette did for jazz. Ornette showed us that there's a way to allow the inspiration, the essence, to lead.
It's like in poetry, right? When you have the epigraph. That’s the inspiration for the piece. Let me Google that right quick, because I think that's what that's called. This is why you have to know other mediums, because it's transferable.
Ok, yes. The epigraph gives the intended theme of the entire piece. So, if you're thinking about the theme, you're thinking about the essence. It's not necessarily a literal translation. You're not trying to use the epigraph and only the epigraph for your thinking. You're trying to expound on it. You're trying to further the conversation.
What Ornette is suggesting is that a piece of music can have an epigraph. It can have a short motive or suggest a theme of what the ensuing piece will be. What he's suggesting is that we can either comment on the introduction, that epigraph, or we can depart from it.
So that's the beautiful thing about that. That's what Ornette did for music. We can continue to play the form or not. We don't have to come back. We can create a whole new form.
I'm learning so much just talking with you, which is why we still need mediums like interviews.
*laughs*
“Did You See Harold Vick?” by Sonny Rollins
BEST FIT: The next song is “Did You See Harold Vick?” by Sonny Rollins. I read that he had said such glowing things about you, which is beautiful.
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: Yes, I actually interviewed him at his request.
Oh, you did? I would love to see that. That must've felt unreal. When someone you admire admires you back. What a beautiful feeling.
Oh, for sure. Beautiful, exactly. It still gives me confidence.
People always like to reflect on the past when it comes to Sonny Rollins. They want to talk about Saxophone Colossus or Tenor Madness. All the classic records we always talk about. But for me, I think, isn't it cool that Sonny Rollins was still releasing music while I was young enough to remember?
Once again, it was in the 2000s. I started playing tenor saxophone in my junior year of high school after all the tenor players graduated. I'm listening to Sonny and that track and I'm like, ‘Wow, man, this dude is funky.’ Once again, we getting back to that funk. And he never repeats himself when he improvises. That track is like nine minutes, and he never repeats himself. I mean, that's amazing, you know?
Sonny's always been a motivic player. He's constantly developing melodies on top of melodies on top of melodies, themes on top of themes. It's always connecting, but you hear him developing it in very cool ways where it's it doesn't feel like it's contrived.
The spontaneity of it makes it feel alive. You don't know what he's going to play next, which is so refreshing. I will always go back to that and just be enamored.
“Syeeda's Song Flute” by John Coltrane
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: This is my favorite song off the Giant Steps record. When I was a teenager, everybody was talking about Coltrane and Giant Steps and beating your head over with this album. I mean, if we were to ask a Madlib or J Dilla to remix this? Come on man, it’s tight.
When you reframe this song in your mind, it's so killing. I might have to bring that back with my trio and just reframe the whole thing. That's why I picked this.
I have an older brother, and he was a part of that generation of getting samplers and experimenting with tape. I always thought he would one day remix this song, but he never did. It’s the golden era, the early '90s up until the early 2000s. The music was crazy. It was hip, it was funky, it was just a vibe.
So, this tune made me realise, Coltrane is hip for real. He's always been hip. That track made it relatable for me as a teenager.
“Motivation” by Bill Barron
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: This album, it's my unicorn album. It's the album I've discovered in recent years that really made me feel like, ‘Wow, okay, I'm connected to something. I'm connected to a person who is blurring the line.’
If you listen to some of his other recordings, they're very much straight ahead, very quote-unquote traditional jazz sounding. This recording has a lot of intervallic leaps, or, as you would say, is kind of chaotic, right? But it's really fascinating.
I haven’t heard anybody play like that. The way he's phrasing those lines. I just recently got that record on vinyl. It was so hard to find. But that's my unicorn.
“No Room for Doubt” by Lianne La Havas
JAMES BRANDON LEWIS: I've been a fan of Lianne’s work since probably 2012. I love the quality of her voice. She has amazing lyrical content too, and this is one of those songs that I go back to.
I've been working on a dissertation, a PhD in creativity, and I have that song on repeat while I'm writing. It kind of centers my mind, and I'm still pondering what exactly this song is about. Is it about a failed relationship? Is it about an abusive relationship? Is it about realising that the person you're with, you don't love, or you're trying to figure out if you do? I like that kind of mystery. Maybe it's a decision to be made. It's interesting. But she's an amazing musician, lyricist, and vocalist of this era.
BEST FIT: Am I allowed to ask what your dissertation is about? Or is it a secret?
The whole dissertation is a PhD in creativity. The dissertation is about the role of creative encounters as a series of transformative experiences, the catalyst for shaping and building artistic DNA. If you just think about unique moments you've had in your life that define and have shaped you, that’s your artistic DNA. Not in a chemical sense, but in a metaphorical sense.
Basically, that's what I'm discussing, using myself as a test case. What has informed my idiosyncratic nature? Using autoethnography as a tool, it’s taken a lot out of me. I got a lot of different things going on.
Well, it’s like you said, you don't want to remain stagnant.
“No, I don't. I don't. But I don't want to go crazy either though!”
Get the Best Fit take on the week in music direct to your inbox every Friday
FKA Twigs
EUSEXUA
Tunng
Love You All Over Again
Ghais Guevara
Goyard Ibn Said
