"The industry has fucked itself" says Mark Kozelek

What was your life growing up in Massillon, Ohio? What music did you listen to as you were growing up?

It was the suburbs, Midwest – born in 1967. It’s just what it was. Fun was throwing corn at someone’s window, smoking pot behind a store, skipping school, listening to Pink Floyd. I listened to what I had access to – ELP, Yes, Neil Young, Led Zeppelin, Simon and Garfunkel. I discovered music at neighbor’s houses, in the bedrooms of friend’s older brother’s and sister’s.

For April, or any of your albums for that matter, how does the writing process go? When listening to the songs it seems like they are connected but I’m sure some songs weren’t cut from the same cloth.

You’re right. They sound connected, because they were all sort of recorded at the same time. But the songs span some time. With this particular record, songs had been building up. But I was caught up with so much that I coudn’t bring the songs to fruition. So I locked myself away for a little bit last year – turned the phone off – and they poured out.

On many of your releases the guitar is at the forefront of the mix when you sing your folk songs. I read about that experience in Ohio listening to that girl sing a John Denver song on acoustic. Did you immediately go out and buy a guitar? What was first experiences with the instrument?

My first was getting a cheap acoustic guitar for christmas. I must have been 7, maybe younger. My Dad realized it was no good after a while, and got me a black ‘Madiera’ Guild acoustic. I fell in love with with way it looked, but my guitar teacher said it was crap. So my Dad traded it for a very plain looking ‘Sigma’ Martin acoustic. It really pissed me off. To this day, I believe this is where my affinity for black guitars comes from, and also, my dislike of Martins. I did have Martin build me a Black one recenty. i’m trying to comprimise.

Red House Painters was quite the underground phenomenon so it may have cast a critical shadow on your first Sun Kil Moon and solo albums. After almost four years do you feel liberated on your second Moon release?

Critical shadow? Maybe over there. I don’t remember. But it took off over here pretty quick. It was an RHP record in many ways – i just called it something else.

I know Kaki King and Ben Gibbard are big fans of your music. Did Gibbard approach you initially as far as backup vocals? What about Will Oldham? How did those collaborations come about?

I saw Ben in San Francisco while i was working on the record. He said, "If you need a vocal, let me know". I remember my first impression of Death Cab, and how Ben sounded like Jon Anderson of Yes. His tone and range is so similar. That’s just what i needed for ‘Lost Verses’. So I called him up, and he helped me out. Beautiful vocals.

On songs like "Tonight in Bilbao" or "Lost Verses" the new album take on the story of the road weary traveler caught in a catch 22. The protagonist in those songs definitely seems to love his home and traveling but the lyrics seem to pointed squarely at the potential disconnect traveling can create. As a musician or otherwise what does traveling mean to you?

Touring, and balancing that with home life, is difficult. Most people don’t think about what a musician goes through everytime they have to tell their loved one they’re leaving town for a month. The average person sees the tour date, but not the difficulties involved, its effects on your home life, your relationships, how it disrputs the balance. I’ve found a balance that works – somewhat – I keep my tours short. But it’s not perfect. I’m conditioned to it, used to it, accept it. But it’s not a walk in the park. If your life is a shitty job and playing video games with room mates, then touring all year is for you. But if you have something meaningful at home, there can be some stress. I like getting out there for a few weeks at a time, but that’s my limit.

Ben Gibbard takes solace in Jack Kerouac when he’s weary of traveling. Did you ever talk to him about the touring musicians’ life or was it just a unstated connection?

Ben and I have talked a little about the dynamics of the back and forth of it all. The bizarreness of it all. Being the guy at home, paying bills, getting coffee, cleaning the cat box, and then opening that magic door and stepping into ‘fanworld’. But with most of my successful musician friends, its an unspoken thing. We never discuss tours or any of that. We all know the drill, what it’s about, have been doing it for years. The average person asks "are you excited about your tour?" but a guy like Alan Sparhhawk would never ask me that, I’d never ask him that. I’ve been doing this since 1992, so has he.

On both Sun Kil Moon albums you seem to be intertwined with the importance of memories. For dire songs like "Heron Blue" was that shaped by biographical events?

Yeah, they all are. Some of my songs are bumpy, awkward – stories within a story – but all from one place – things I see, experience, feel, whatever.

Do you think you’ve made your definitive album yet? Where do you continually find inspiration from?

I don’t know. Whenever I’ve finished an album, I feel like a boxer after 12 rounds. Like, "what could I possibly have left?" on April , i delivered a 73 minute album, with 20 minutes of bonus tracks. So I’m not in hurry to get back into the studio. But as always, eventually, something’s gonna burst out of me, like that scene in Alien. That’s how it works sometimes – it comes out of nowhere.

I know musicians tend to stave off picking favorite songs or albums for a variety of reasons but is there any particular song or album that you have fond memories of creating?

Rollercoaster was the worst – the most stressful mess I ever got myself into. But Tiny Cities , without a doubt, was my favorite to record. It was like the record was already there – I just had to open the door, let it flow out. Isaac Brock’s lyrics are so fun to sing. That was a good time. Fuck, I should be like Sinatra, sing other people’s songs.

Whether it was the Modest Mouse covers release or elsewhere how do you approach covering the music of people you admire?

I just sing the stuff. "On the day I was born, the rain came down". You know? That’s fun to sing! Jesus. It can’t be that difficult to understand. "I’m goin’ to Colorado…. to unload my head". That stuff is just made to be sung. Like ‘Freebird’ or ‘Mr. Postman’ or ‘Send in the clowns’.

For Brock your slower delivery definitely showcased his largely unrecognized knack for lyricism but for covering people like John Denver do you approach it differently?

Enough about covers. I just like to sing other people’s songs. Period.

Old Ramon is definitely a legendary as far as "lost albums" go. Looking back at the whole process after a couple years how do you react to it now? Are you surprised about the outcome after its release being such a logistical headache?

I learned a lot from that experience, business wise. If you stay in (the) music business long enough, you’re gonna deal with some bottom line shit, some anti-fun. Regarding that album, a lawyer said to me, "throw it in the trash – forget about it – it will never see the light of day." But I got another lawyer, he did some negotiating, and got the record back for 1/8 of what was spent on it. I spent a lot of time on that record – up there in the woods in Mendocino – hunched over the mixing board like a vampire in the night. So I was determined to put it out, and I did. With Old Ramon , I learned that patience pays off, and the difference between a good lawyer and a bad one.

Starting with Ocean Beach your vocals started to move to the forefront where on April some songs seem almost like vocal pieces. How do feel you have grown as a vocalist since your Red House Painters days and specifically for April ?

I’m more relaxed now. I used to be so nervous, doing my vocals. But I gave a lot back then, too. Man, I’d just scream at the end of Blindfold , or wail at the end of Mother . I was 23, 24, had a lot of mojo then. I’m more of a settled singer now, lower voice. I just tell my stories.

Was Sun Kil Moon’s appearance in Shopgirl brought about by Steve Martin’s interest or did it come about in a different way?

The director, Anand Tucker, was a fan. He originally wanted me to be the guy playing in the bar, when Claire is depressed. I forget who ended up with that part. Maybe the Handsom Family, or something like that? But then he called me one day and said "You’re Luther! Get on plane! We’re shooting your scenes tomorrow!" I was in and out of there in 2 days. Never met Steve.

Tell me a little about the impetus behind creating the lyrics book Nights of Passed Over. Were your fans clamoring for this rerelease since the Portugal one was hard to come by?

I just wanted to put the book out myself one day, in a way that wasn’t so obscure. With a few albums finished, since then, it felt right to reissue it, in a way that was more visible, that made sense.

What do you make of the current trend of bands giving their music away for free on the internet (Radiohead, NIN etc). The ongoing digital revolution seems to have turned the industry on its head. Other artists we’ve spoken to recently seem to see it as a positive thing. What are your thoughts?

Well, we’re at a point, where if we don’t give our music to the fans for free, somebody else will. It’s frustrating – 3 or 4 months of work, thousands spent – but an album has become something not worthy of being paid for, in the eyes of many. So it’s really a matter of pride and control. It’s become like, "WE’RE going to give you our music, not some anonymous nobody." It comes down to conditioning and acceptance. If therapy was suddenly available for free over the internet – it would devistate all therapists. But they’d lick their wounds eventually, and find a way around it: "i’ll listen to your problems, AND i’ll rub your feet."

That’s what it’s reduced to now. Artists have to think in broader terms – bonus tracks, limited editions, 60 page booklets, bonus DVDs, drops of blood, whatever. As far as free downloading being good thing – its sort of becoming the only thing. This isn’t 30 years ago, where there are 4 bands to like. There are thousands and thousands of records are being released, thousand of new bands and labels. So who can expect a 16 year old kid to spend 15 bucks everytime a record is put out? I’m just saying, there are really two sides to the whole thing.

The industry has fucked itself, in a way. Kids have to fill up those iPods.

Can we expect any UK tour dates this year? Are you a fan of festivals, would you consider playing Glastonbury or would you prefer something a little smaller?

I don’t care. I’ve played Florida. I’ll play anywhere.